Legislature(2009 - 2010)BARNES 124

02/10/2009 10:00 AM House FISHERIES


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10:09:17 AM Start
10:10:26 AM Southeast Alaska Herring Management Issues
12:05:00 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Southeast Alaska Herring Management TELECONFERENCED
Issues:
Ketchikan Herring Action Committee
Sitka Tribe
Dept. of Fish & Game
Sitka Herring Association
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                                                            
                       February 10, 2009                                                                                        
                           10:09 a.m.                                                                                           
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bryce Edgmon, Chair                                                                                              
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Wes Keller                                                                                                       
Representative Charisse Millett                                                                                                 
Representative Cathy Engstrom Munoz                                                                                             
Representative Robert L. "Bob" Buch                                                                                             
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Bill Thomas                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SOUTHEAST ALASKA HERRING MANAGEMENT ISSUES:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     -KETCHIKAN HERRING ACTION COMMITTEE                                                                                        
     -SITKA TRIBE                                                                                                               
     -ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ANDY RAUWOLF, Representative                                                                                                    
Ketchikan Herring Action Group                                                                                                  
Ketchikan, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the hearing on Southeast                                                                
Alaska herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS THORNTON, Ph.D.                                                                                                          
Associate Professor of Anthropology                                                                                             
Portland State University                                                                                                       
Portland, Oregon                                                                                                                
Senior Research Fellow                                                                                                          
Environmental Change Institute                                                                                                  
Oxford University                                                                                                               
Oxford, England                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  during the hearing  on Southeast                                                             
Alaska Herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
EVELYN BROWN, Ph.D.                                                                                                             
Flying Fish Ltd.                                                                                                                
Husum, Washington                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  during the hearing  on Southeast                                                             
Alaska herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
VINCENT PATRICK, Ph.D.                                                                                                          
Cordova, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  during the hearing  on Southeast                                                             
Alaska herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MIKE MILLER, Council Member                                                                                                     
Sitka Tribe of Alaska                                                                                                           
Sitka, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  during the hearing  on Southeast                                                             
Alaska herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CLARENCE JACKSON, Director                                                                                                      
Sealaska Corporation                                                                                                            
Kake, Alaska                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  during the hearing  on Southeast                                                             
Alaska herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHIP TREINEN, Representative                                                                                                    
Sitka Herring Association                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  during the hearing  on Southeast                                                             
Alaska herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
KYLE HEBERT, Biologist                                                                                                          
Division of Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  during the hearing  on Southeast                                                             
Alaska Herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JOHN HILSINGER, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  during the hearing  on Southeast                                                             
Alaska herring management issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:09:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BRYCE  EDGMON  called  the   House  Special  Committee  on                                                             
Fisheries  meeting  to  order  at  10:09  a.m.    Representatives                                                               
Edgmon, Munoz, Buch, Millett, Kawasaki,  Johnson, and Keller were                                                               
present at the call to  order.  Representatives Wilson and Thomas                                                               
were also present.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
^SOUTHEAST ALASKA HERRING MANAGEMENT ISSUES                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:10:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR EDGMON  introduced the herring fishery  topic, stating that                                                               
the fisheries  management model in  Alaska is regarded as  one of                                                               
the best  in the world  because it relies  on science as  well as                                                               
input from the general public.   He urged a constructive exchange                                                               
of information at today's hearing.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:11:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ANDY  RAUWOLF,  Representative,  Ketchikan  Area  Herring  Action                                                               
Group,   paraphrased  from   the  following   prepared  statement                                                               
[original  punctuation  provided,  but  some  formatting  changes                                                               
included]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Thank  you  each for  allowing  us  the opportunity  to                                                                    
     testify  on  the  issue   of  depleted  herring  stocks                                                                    
     throughout  Southeast Alaska  and  other  parts of  the                                                                    
     State.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     This  issue  is  of  grave   concern  to  thousands  of                                                                    
     residents  in  our  coastal  communities.    Scientists                                                                    
     agree  that along  with  Washington  State and  British                                                                    
     Columbia,  the entire  ecosystem  of Southeast  Alaskan                                                                    
     waters  is dependent  on the  health  of local  herring                                                                    
     stocks.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     During  the 1980s,  many of  us began  to be  concerned                                                                    
     about  local   stocks  targeted  in   unregulated  bait                                                                    
     fisheries  and early  sac roe  fisheries that  were not                                                                    
     recovering.  Our concerns grew  when the large stock in                                                                    
     Lynn Canal crashed in 1983  and did not recover.  Later                                                                    
     on in  the 1980s, a  pilot who  owned a lodge  near Kah                                                                    
     Shakes  expressed concern  that  what  was once  twenty                                                                    
     miles of  spawning grounds along  the Kah  Shakes shore                                                                    
     was getting  steadily smaller each year  under pressure                                                                    
     from  the  gillnet  fishery.    Letters  were  sent  to                                                                    
     politicians  and  meetings  were held  with  ADF&G  and                                                                    
     assurances  were given  that  the  herring stocks  were                                                                    
     being well  managed.  After  the crash of  the historic                                                                    
     Kah  Shakes stock  in 1990,  we formed  an organization                                                                    
     called the  Herring Coalition.   By  this time,  it was                                                                    
     apparent to everyone that  herring populations were not                                                                    
     recovering under ADF&G's management plan.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     In 1993, we  joined with the Annette  Island Reserve in                                                                    
     a  law suit  in an  effort  to prevent  the state  from                                                                    
     targeting a herring stock that  was also being targeted                                                                    
     by the Reserve that had  moved just outside the Annette                                                                    
     Island  boundary.  This  action was  settled  with  the                                                                    
     Reserve   when   the   state   offered   them   fishing                                                                    
     jurisdiction over a disputed  island not related to the                                                                    
     case. Locals  could not afford to  continue the lawsuit                                                                    
     on their own.  Kah Shakes did not recover.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Since 1993,  citizens not related to  this fishery have                                                                    
     participated  in  advisory   committees  and  submitted                                                                    
     numerous proposals  to the Board  of Fish in  an effort                                                                    
     to  raise  the level  of  conservation  of our  herring                                                                    
     stocks.   Although  the  mission of  fish  and game  is                                                                    
     supposed to  be to "protect, maintain,  and improve the                                                                    
     fisheries" and the Board's main  role is supposed to be                                                                    
     "to   conserve   and  develop"   fisheries   resources,                                                                    
     conservative herring proposals  submitted by the public                                                                    
     have been largely ignored.   The "public participation"                                                                    
     that ADF&G  encourages on the  surface only  works well                                                                    
     when the  public involved is a  commercial interest and                                                                    
     is  in agreement  with the  department.   The Board  of                                                                    
     Fish  has proven  to be  dysfunctional, with  many   of                                                                    
     board  members  being  stakeholders  in  the  fisheries                                                                    
     after  being  appointed  by the  governor  following  a                                                                    
     heavy  lobbying   effort  financed  by   the  industry.                                                                    
     Stakeholders rarely  if ever vote to  reduce a fishery.                                                                    
     The system  has been broken  for years.  Fish  and Game                                                                    
     has failed  to achieve  the third  goal in  its mission                                                                    
     statement which  is to  "increase public  knowledge and                                                                    
     confidence that  wild populations of fish  and wildlife                                                                    
     are  responsibly  managed."   In  the  case of  herring                                                                    
     management, there  is no  public confidence  unless you                                                                    
     are  a herring  fisherman.    In the  case  of the  Kah                                                                    
     Shakes fishery,  four of the  seven board  members that                                                                    
     we  were asking  to  adopt  more conservative  measures                                                                    
     were  herring  permit  holders.    All  these  measures                                                                    
     failed unanimously, and herring  were depleted from Kah                                                                    
     Shakes the following year.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Our  herring  stocks are  but  a  fraction of  historic                                                                    
     levels.  As  a result, species that depend  on them are                                                                    
     showing signs of stress.   There are now both fewer and                                                                    
     smaller halibut  and king salmon in  recent consecutive                                                                    
     years, and the problem  is getting progressively worse.                                                                    
     Fifty-three percent  of the diet of  halibut and sixty-                                                                    
     two  percent of  the  diet of  king  salmon is  herring                                                                    
     according  to   research  by  the  Canadian   dept.  of                                                                    
     fisheries.   Last  year's  winter  king salmon  fishery                                                                    
     decreased by 53 ½% over  the previous year.  This might                                                                    
     not be a cause for alarm  were it not for the fact that                                                                    
     king   salmon  are   now   listed   as  endangered   in                                                                    
     Washington,  Oregon, and  California.    The fish  from                                                                    
     Washington  spend  a large  part  of  their life  cycle                                                                    
     feeding  in OUR  waters.   The herring  stock in  Puget                                                                    
     Sound has crashed.  The  anchovy stocks that salmon fed                                                                    
     on  in  California  and  Oregon  were  over-fished  and                                                                    
     crashed  years ago.   Prior  to  the crash  of the  New                                                                    
     England   Cod   fisheries,  Atlantic   herring   stocks                                                                    
     crashed.   The crash of  the New England  Cod fisheries                                                                    
     put 20,000  people out of  work.  According  to figures                                                                    
     recently  released by  the Environmental  Defense Fund,                                                                    
     about 72,000  jobs have been lost  because of dwindling                                                                    
     salmon stocks in the Pacific Northwest alone.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Orca  whales  are now  listed  as  endangered in  Puget                                                                    
     Sound and in southern  British Columbia, and are listed                                                                    
     as  threatened  right  on   our  doorstep  in  northern                                                                    
     British  Columbia.   Scientific studies  show that  the                                                                    
     problem  is starvation!    The main  diet  of Orcas  is                                                                    
     Chinook salmon.   The  main diet  of Chinook  salmon is                                                                    
     herring!  Scientists  in  Puget  Sound  are  connecting                                                                    
     these dots.   We need  to connect  the same dots  if we                                                                    
     are  going  to head  off  a  similar disaster  here  in                                                                    
     Alaskan waters.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Since  the sac  roe fishery  began, the  humpback whale                                                                    
     population has  increased from less than  300, to about                                                                    
     4,000 whales  migrating in  just Southeast  Alaska each                                                                    
     year due to a federal  recovery program.  Fish and Game                                                                    
     data  shows  that  "Humpback   whales  in  Alaska  feed                                                                    
     principally on  herring, other small fish,  and schools                                                                    
     of krill."   Each  adult humpback consumes  between 800                                                                    
     and  3,500   pounds  of  feed   daily.     Their  total                                                                    
     consumption   of   feed   is  between   3,200,000   and                                                                    
     14,000,000 lbs. daily.  The  steady decline observed in                                                                    
     the  herring population  seems to  correspond with  the                                                                    
     increase  in the  humpback whale  population.   Did the                                                                    
     feds take  this into consideration?   We doubt  it, and                                                                    
     neither does ADF&G.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Had  ADF&G  and  the  Board of  Fish  listened  to  the                                                                    
     public's  concerns years  ago, our  fisheries resources                                                                    
     would be much healthier than  they are today.  Instead,                                                                    
     we are  faced with  the possibility  of a  federal take                                                                    
     over  of our  fisheries.   As  we  speak, the  National                                                                    
     Marine   Fisheries  Service   is  considering   listing                                                                    
     Southeast  Alaska's  herring  stocks as  threatened  or                                                                    
     endangered.    This  could be  a  catastrophe  for  our                                                                    
     coastal  communities.   As  Representative Paul  Seaton                                                                    
     said, this could affect  mining, logging, and municipal                                                                    
     wastewater discharge standards to  the detriment of our                                                                    
     economies at a  cost of millions of dollars  and a loss                                                                    
     of  hundreds of  jobs in  industries already  suffering                                                                    
     from  heavy-handed  environmental restrictions.    This                                                                    
     threat is real and we cannot afford to ignore it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     In spite of all of  this, the Alaska Department of Fish                                                                    
     and Game is planning  on yet another consecutive RECORD                                                                    
     harvest of  one of the  last great herring  stocks left                                                                    
     anywhere in  the world, near  Sitka Sound  this spring.                                                                    
     The  value of  this  fishery  is less  than  2% of  the                                                                    
     overall value  of combined fisheries  in the  state and                                                                    
     is providing  a supplementary income for  the 52 permit                                                                    
     holders  who  participate  in  these  other  fisheries.                                                                    
     With  the prices  of herring  roe falling,  and herring                                                                    
     stocks  depleted throughout  the world  does this  make                                                                    
     any sense?                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     To  illustrate why  this is  a bad  idea, and  how this                                                                    
     problem can possibly be fixed,  I yield the floor to my                                                                    
     colleagues [Dr.  Thornton, Dr. Brown, Dr.  Patrick, and                                                                    
     Mike Miller].                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:22:19 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. THOMAS THORNTON, Ph.D.,  Associate Professor of Anthropology,                                                               
Portland  State  University,  Portland, Oregon;  Senior  Research                                                               
Fellow,  Environmental   Change  Institute,   Oxford  University,                                                               
paraphrased  from  the  following  prepared  statement  [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     I am  pleased to have  the opportunity to report  on an                                                                    
     ongoing research  project undertaken by me  and several                                                                    
     colleagues  (beginning  in  2007, to  be  completed  in                                                                    
     2009),  entitled  "Herring Synthesis:  Documenting  and                                                                    
     Modeling   Herring   Spawning   Areas   within   Socio-                                                                    
     Ecological Systems  over Time in the  Southeastern Gulf                                                                    
     of Alaska."  This project,  funded by the North Pacific                                                                    
     Research Board,  was conceived in response  to numerous                                                                    
     comments  and  concerns  I have  documented  about  the                                                                    
     status  of  herring  in  Southeast  Alaska  during  the                                                                    
     course  of my  anthropological research  in the  region                                                                    
     over the past  20 years.  The aim of  the project is to                                                                    
     better  understand  broad  trends  in  the  ecology  of                                                                    
     herring in Southeast  Alaska by synthesizing historical                                                                    
     and local sources of knowledge  not widely consulted by                                                                    
     fisheries managers  at present in order  to improve our                                                                    
     collective  understanding   and  management   of  these                                                                    
     precious fish stocks.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     PROJECT OVERVIEW                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     1) Background:  Pacific  herring (Clupea pallasii) is a                                                                    
     foundation  and bellwether  species  for North  Pacific                                                                    
     marine  ecosystems but  productive spawning  areas (and                                                                    
     times) in  Southeast Alaska are limited  and historical                                                                    
     population of  dynamics and ecology of  the species are                                                                    
     not well understood.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Communities with local  and traditional knowledge (LTK)                                                                    
     of herring fisheries claim  that historical stocks were                                                                    
     larger  and spawning  areas  more  numerous earlier  in                                                                    
     their lifetimes.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     While  shifts   in  stocks   and  spawning   have  been                                                                    
     documented  since  1980,  no synthesis  of  the  deeper                                                                    
     archaeological,   historical,    and   ethno-ecological                                                                    
     records  on herring  spawning  areas  has been  carried                                                                    
     out.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The  lack of  deep  historical  knowledge in  fisheries                                                                    
     management is [a] growing issue  of concern.  As marine                                                                    
     biologist  Callum Roberts  puts it  in his  recent book                                                                    
     The  Unnatural History  of the  Sea (2007:xiv-xv):   "A                                                                  
     collective  amnesia  surrounds  changes  that  happened                                                                    
     more than  a few  decades ago,  as hardly  anyone reads                                                                    
     old books  or reports."   This  in turn  can lead  to a                                                                    
     problem  of   "shifting  environmental   baselines"  in                                                                    
     management  in which  "we come  to accept  the degraded                                                                    
     condition of  the sea  as normal.   Those  charged with                                                                    
     looking  after the  oceans set  themselves un-ambitious                                                                    
     management  targets  that   simply  attempt  to  arrest                                                                    
     declines, rather  than rebuild  to the richer  and more                                                                    
     productive states that existed in  the past.  If we are                                                                    
     to break out of this  spiral of diminishing returns and                                                                    
     diminished expectations  of the  sea, then it  is vital                                                                    
     that  we gain  a  clearer picture  of  how things  have                                                                    
     changed and what has been lost."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Our    objective    is     to    synthesize    existing                                                                    
     archaeological,     ethnological,    historical     and                                                                    
     biological  records  with  data from  interviews  (60+)                                                                    
     with   herring  fishers   with  significant   long-term                                                                    
     observations and local  and traditional knowledge (LTK)                                                                    
     of  herring  populations  to  build  a  historical  and                                                                    
     spatial  database  to:    1)  identify  the  extent  of                                                                    
     historic and  prehistoric herring spawning  and massing                                                                    
     areas;  2) link  changes  in herring  spawn extent  and                                                                    
     intensity  to environmental  and human  factors in  the                                                                    
     socio-ecological  system;  and  3)  identify  sensitive                                                                    
     areas  for  protection  and  potential  restoration  of                                                                    
     herring spawning.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     2)  Key  hypotheses  for  the   project  include:    1.                                                                    
     Present  herring  stocks,  even  in  highly  productive                                                                    
     areas  such  as  Sitka  Sound,  are  essentially  being                                                                    
     managed   in  a   "depleted  status,"   representing  a                                                                    
     fraction    of   their    historical   abundance    and                                                                    
     distribution;   2.   Significant  long-term impacts  to                                                                    
     Southeast  herring  stocks distribution  and  abundance                                                                    
     have   been   anthropogenic,    in   particular   over-                                                                    
     exploitation  of  the  species  by  commercial  herring                                                                    
     fisheries  in  the  last  century  (e.g.,  for  herring                                                                    
     reduction     plants),     but    also     disturbance,                                                                    
     contamination,  and  degradation of  critical  spawning                                                                    
     habitats;   3.  Human  dependence on herring as  a food                                                                    
     resource   evolved   through  interactions   with   key                                                                    
     spawning  areas   with  abundant  substrates   for  egg                                                                    
     deposition  (such as  macrocystis  kelp, rockweed,  and                                                                    
     eelgrass), with  which many aboriginal  settlements are                                                                    
     associated,   and  was   later  enhanced   through  the                                                                    
     development    of   engineered    marinescapes   (e.g.,                                                                    
     placement  of  hemlock  boughs  in  intertidal  areas),                                                                    
     techniques for conserving  herring stocks by regulating                                                                    
     human  harvests and  disturbances to  critical spawning                                                                    
     habitat,  and by  the development  of new  technologies                                                                    
     (such as the herring  rake) for capturing whole herring                                                                    
     in quantity.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     3) Preliminary results:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Our   interviews  have   documented  numerous   herring                                                                    
     spawning areas  not previously identified in  state and                                                                    
     territorial  management  records  (see   Maps  1  &  2,                                                                    
     compiled by  Jamie Herbert).  These  spawning areas are                                                                    
     represented  by the  green  lines  on the  accompanying                                                                    
     draft maps.   Some of  these sites still may  be viable                                                                    
     for  herring spawning,  and some  local fishers  report                                                                    
     having  experimented with  transplanting herring  spawn                                                                    
     to   historically   productive   areas  in   order   to                                                                    
     revitalize stocks.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     In addition  we have been  able to verify  the spawning                                                                    
     areas identified  in state  and observations  about the                                                                    
     qualities and  changing status of these  spawning areas                                                                    
     (black  dots and  red triangles).   Most  of the  green                                                                    
     areas and  many of the  yellow ones are/were  not major                                                                    
     spawning  areas.    (Note:    not  all  data  has  been                                                                    
     entered/vetted in GIS)                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The  interviews  we  have analyzed  to  date  reveal  a                                                                    
     complex  picture of  herring  stocks (in  light of  the                                                                    
     first  two  hypotheses  above),   with  many  areas  of                                                                    
     historical spawning  observed to be in  decline or even                                                                    
     barren,   but  some   also  displaying   rebounding  or                                                                    
     cyclical  trends.   It  is  not  clear to  what  extent                                                                    
     decreasing numbers of herring  in one spawning area may                                                                    
     represent a shift to other areas.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Sitka  stocks are  recognized as  a uniquely  large and                                                                    
     relatively  stable  in   producing  quality  spawn  for                                                                    
     subsistence, but  other smaller stocks are  also highly                                                                    
     valued  by   local  communities  for   subsistence  and                                                                    
     personal  uses as  well as  their foundational  role in                                                                    
     supporting the marine ecosystem.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Integration of  LTK observations and  select historical                                                                    
     and   environmental    data   layers    in   Geographic                                                                    
     Information Systems  (GIS) mapping is being  carried to                                                                    
     analyze  potential  causal  factor[s]  contributing  to                                                                    
     changes  in  contemporary   herring  stocks,  including                                                                    
     anthropogenic    impacts    (e.g.,   fishing    habitat                                                                    
     degradation),   as   hypothesized,    but   also   non-                                                                    
     anthropogenic ones,  such as  marine mammal  and salmon                                                                    
     predation  and climate  change.   In most  communities,                                                                    
     multiple factors  are cited as contributing  to changes                                                                    
     in local herring stocks.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     There are not estimates of  herring biomass in the pre-                                                                    
     and   early   commercial   fishing  eras.      However,                                                                    
     historical  analysis  of  the  fisheries  conducted  by                                                                    
     Fritz [F]unk  for our  project shows  a long  period of                                                                    
     more-or-less  constant  catch,  ranging from  4,000  to                                                                    
     10,000  tons, from  1880 through  1918,  when only  one                                                                    
     herring  reduction  plant  operated at  Kilisnoo,  near                                                                    
     Angoon.   With  intensive capitalization  in the  early                                                                    
     1920s,  there  followed  3  waves  of  "boom-and-bust",                                                                    
     where peak  catches exceeded 40,000 tons  annually.  By                                                                    
     the  1940s,  the paucity  of  herring  during the  bust                                                                    
     cycles  attracted federal  regulators, and  quotas were                                                                    
     enacted  to  preserve  herring for  other  uses  (food,                                                                    
     bait, prey  for other species).   Note that  the quotas                                                                    
     always lag  the catch  in the  declining phase  of each                                                                    
     cycle.  Fishermen are first  unable to find enough fish                                                                    
     to catch  the quota, then  the quota is lowered  in the                                                                    
     subsequent  year.    There   was  no  stock  assessment                                                                    
     focused  on  abundance  estimation,  so  quotas  merely                                                                    
     reflected fishing experience from  the prior year.  The                                                                    
     number  of operating  plants peak[ed]  in 1928;  as the                                                                    
     efficiency of factory  processes and vessels increased,                                                                    
     fewer plants,  fishermen, and vessels could  attain the                                                                    
     same  production   as  in  the  earlier,   more  labor-                                                                    
     intensive  era.   The  last  plant  closed in  the  mid                                                                    
     1960s.   Overall fishing impacts associated  with these                                                                    
     plants were  concentrated in central  Southeast Alaska,                                                                    
     especially  South Baranof  Island, Frederick  Sound and                                                                    
     Chatham Strait.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     As  of January  2009, records  from 228  archaeological                                                                    
     sites have  been reviewed  by colleagues  Madonna Moss,                                                                    
     Virginia Butler, and  J. Tait Elder.  Only  25 of these                                                                    
     sites   were  excavated   and  studied   using  methods                                                                    
     appropriate for  documenting small-bodied herring.   Of                                                                    
     this  sub-set, 21  (84%) contain  herring bones,  which                                                                    
     highlights the consistent use of  the fish in the past.                                                                    
     The   earliest   herring   remains  are   about   8,000                                                                    
     radiocarbon  years old  and from  the  Chuck Lake  Site                                                                    
     (49-CRG-237)  on Heceta  Island.   Most of  the records                                                                    
     date  to  the last  4,000  years.   Many  long-standing                                                                    
     Native  community settlements  appear to  be associated                                                                    
     with  important  historical  herring stocks.    We  are                                                                    
     assessing patterns in herring  use over time and space,                                                                    
     comparing   them  with   known   cultural  changes   in                                                                    
     settlement    patterns,   social    organization,   and                                                                    
     technology,  as  well  as environmental  forces  (e.g.,                                                                    
     changing climate, sea-level changes).                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Our  project website,  contains  additional details  on                                                                    
     the progress and results of our research.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     4) Preliminary conclusions:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Better  historical and  local understanding  of herring                                                                    
     populations  and their  role  in  marine ecosystems  is                                                                    
     critical for assessing the  long-term trends and health                                                                    
     of these  stocks and  other species  that rely  on them                                                                    
     for food.  A  precautionary principle toward management                                                                    
     may  be   called  for  until   broad-based  historical-                                                                    
     ecological  studies  assess   the  overall  health  and                                                                    
     trends  of  herring  stocks  in  southeast  Alaska  and                                                                    
     adjacent waters.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Our  research  in  the communities  of  Angoon,  Craig,                                                                    
     Hoonah,  Juneau, Kake,  Ketchikan-Saxman, Klawock,  and                                                                    
     Sitka  is   not  comprehensive  for  the   region,  but                                                                    
     indicates   the   value   of  local   and   traditional                                                                    
     knowledge, combined with  broader historical ecological                                                                    
     enquiry,   for    assessing   key    herring   impacts,                                                                    
     relationships,  and trends  over time.   Our  data show                                                                    
     that   many  herring   spawning  areas   have  declined                                                                    
     resulting     in    increasing     fragmentation    and                                                                    
     vulnerability of remaining stocks.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Herring have  shown vulnerability and  resilience since                                                                    
     the  advent  of  commercial exploitation  more  than  a                                                                    
     century   ago;  however,   many   local  residents   in                                                                    
     communities  with historically  significant stocks  are                                                                    
     concerned about their present status.   They are acting                                                                    
     in  their   own  ways   to  conserve   them,  including                                                                    
     "reseeding"  historical  spawning  areas.   However,  a                                                                    
     broader, ecosystem-level strategy  is needed to balance                                                                    
     herring stocks.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:35:21 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
EVELYN BROWN,  Ph.D., Flying  Fish Ltd., said  she spent  over 10                                                               
years with  the Alaska  Department of Fish  & Game  (ADF&G), with                                                               
much of  her latter years  in Prince  William Sound as  a herring                                                               
biologist.    She  was  the  principle  investigator  for  damage                                                               
assessment studies  on herring  after the  1989 Exxon  Valdez oil                                                               
spill.  She  subsequently received her Ph.D.  from the University                                                               
of  Alaska  Fairbanks.   Her  Ph.D.  dissertation  was  entitled,                                                               
"Stock  Structure   and  Environmental  Effects  on   Year  Class                                                               
Formation  and Population  Trends  of Pacific  Herring in  Prince                                                               
William Sound, Alaska".                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR.  BROWN  reported that  in  the  early 1900s,  [the  Southeast                                                               
Alaska] herring  complex was  huge and  harvests were  massive at                                                               
over  100,000  tons [slide  2  of  her PowerPoint  presentation].                                                               
Fishermen  often  reported  huge  juvenile schools  in  bays  and                                                               
passes and the  locations of these juvenile schools  were used as                                                               
harbingers  for  where  to  fish  the  next  year,  she  related.                                                               
Historically,  herring harvest  occurred  all down  the coast  of                                                               
Baranof Island,  up into [Sitka Sound],  and all the way  over to                                                               
Ketchikan.   She stressed that it  was a complex of  herring, not                                                               
bunches of little populations.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN  explained that during  this time, marine  mammals were                                                               
way down from  commercial whaling.  Sea birds,  seals, and eagles                                                               
were  hunted and  there were  massive harvests  of salmon.   This                                                               
cleaning out of  herring predators may have allowed  the stock to                                                               
grow  this  large, she  said.    In  addition, the  Japanese  and                                                               
Koreans were  fishing with 10-mile-long gill  nets, catching tons                                                               
of  juvenile sharks  that  preyed  on salmon  and  herring.   The                                                               
removal  of   predator  species  simplified  the   dynamics  that                                                               
controlled herring and  man became the main  predator and removal                                                               
source  for juvenile  and adult  herring during  those days.   By                                                               
World War  II, herring populations  were reduced and  the herring                                                               
industry and markets began to collapse.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN noted  that when the roe markets were  developed in the                                                               
1970s, the herring  population was at low levels and  an order of                                                               
magnitude smaller than  what it was earlier in the  century.  The                                                               
ADF&G stock  assessment and  monitoring began  in earnest  in the                                                               
late  1970s, she  related.   Thus,  the frame  of reference  used                                                               
today in  management does not  include the early years  - today's                                                               
measuring stick began with a depleted stock.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:39:53 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN, in response to  Chair Edgmon, explained that the frame                                                               
of reference  is from the historic  fisheries at the turn  of the                                                               
century, the  traditional knowledge from  the late 1800s  and the                                                               
early  1900s when  the reduction  years  started.   She said  the                                                               
point she is making is that  ADF&G's frame of reference starts in                                                               
the 1970s with a depleted stock.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.  BROWN  continued with  her  presentation,  pointed out  that                                                               
today's  setting is  much more  complex [slide  3].   The herring                                                               
population  is  a  fraction  of  what it  was  and  many  of  the                                                               
localized spawning  areas have  disappeared, she  said.   This is                                                               
called stock  contraction.   Marine mammal,  sea bird,  and shark                                                               
populations  have  recovered,  and  along  with  enhanced  salmon                                                               
production  there  is  an order  of  magnitude  higher  predation                                                               
pressure on the herring stocks than  there was at the turn of the                                                               
century, and especially  since the 1980s.  Humans  must now share                                                               
the herring  harvest with  this host  of other  predator species.                                                               
Humpbacks  have  recently  been   observed  feeding  on  juvenile                                                               
herring, she added, which is a change from adult herring.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN  said climate change adds  yet another twist.   It will                                                               
affect  herring  from the  bottom  up  because it  changes  ocean                                                               
conditions and  plankton production,  and it will  affect herring                                                               
from the top  down with new predators moving  into Alaska waters,                                                               
such  as tuna  and  whiting.   Climate  change  will also  affect                                                               
herring  from within  because the  changed  ocean conditions  put                                                               
stress on  the fish  and diseases occur,  which is  already being                                                               
seen in Prince William Sound, Puget Sound, and British Columbia.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN contended that grassroots  management within the Alaska                                                               
Department of  Fish &  Game has  been systematically  gutted with                                                               
less  money for  assessments and  research.   The department  has                                                               
been forced  to rely  more and  more on  model outputs  and these                                                               
models are often  based on a single population level  index.  The                                                               
department  is  not  equipped  to adapt  to  the  complex  system                                                               
dynamics and is  instead forced to modify  basic herring biology,                                                               
such as  the maturation rate, to  make the data fit  the expected                                                               
shape  of  the  model.   Forecasted  populations  can  be  easily                                                               
manipulated  by using  different indices  and different  maturity                                                               
schedules, and  by changing fecundity rates  and mortality rates.                                                               
However, fecundity  has been measured  only four times  since the                                                               
1970s, she  said, and mortality  is never measured  despite being                                                               
an important piece of the model.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:43:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN, in response to  Chair Edgmon, defined fecundity as the                                                               
number of eggs produced by  a female, generally expressed as eggs                                                               
per gram.   This is important because the number  of eggs counted                                                               
during spawn deposition  surveys is used to say  how many herring                                                               
produced  those eggs.   Yet,  this is  measured only  rarely, she                                                               
reiterated.  The  rate changes and it can change  on the scale of                                                               
10 or  20 percent.  Mortality  is never measured, so  modeling is                                                               
being done without validation, which is irresponsible, she said.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN related that Dr.  Vincent Patrick conducted an analysis                                                               
which  found that  a different  population number  can result  by                                                               
using different  indices in  the same ADF&G  model.   Dr. Vincent                                                               
came up with  a lower number, but the number  being used by ADF&G                                                               
is the higher number.  She  further related that work she and Dr.                                                               
Patrick have  done has shown  that the herring  population occurs                                                               
in  two  stable states  -  low  or high  -  and  not anything  in                                                               
between.   There  are dynamics  that keep  the population  at one                                                               
level or the  other.  She predicted that Sitka  is about ready to                                                               
be pushed to  the low and like Prince William  Sound it will take                                                               
years and years  for the population to come back.   She said that                                                               
she  and  Dr. Patrick  feel  that  ADF&G's  high number  is  very                                                               
dangerous and the Southeast population  is at extremely high risk                                                               
for  a collapse.    Given the  current  predation pressure  which                                                               
includes  the commercial  harvest,  the  predation dynamics  will                                                               
keep the  stock trapped at  low density  once it collapses.   She                                                               
added  that she  and Dr.  Patrick  also believe  the fishery  can                                                               
change the herring distribution and affect spawning behavior.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:44:50 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS asked  how Dr.  Brown can  say that  Sitka                                                               
Sound's herring  population will  go down like  it has  in Prince                                                               
William Sound when there has been no oil spill in Sitka Sound.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN replied that before  the oil spill and just afterwards,                                                               
the  dynamics   in  Prince  William  and   Sitka  Sound  operated                                                               
similarly.   The age  structures are often  similar when  the two                                                               
areas  recruit together,  she explained,  and  the bounds  within                                                               
which  the two  population  go  high and  low  are very  similar.                                                               
There  are no  other two  populations  in the  entire state  that                                                               
appear  to cohere  together.   The spill  knocked Prince  William                                                               
Sound down, but the experts say the  oil impact is gone.  So, the                                                               
key question  is, "Why is the  stock still low in  Prince William                                                               
Sound?"   There  has  been no  successful  recruitment in  Prince                                                               
William Sound  since 1992.  She  said her point is  that if Sitka                                                               
Sound goes down, it will probably stay down.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:46:16 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS noted  that his  district includes  Prince                                                               
William Sound and his constituents  would probably argue with the                                                               
statement that the oil is no longer there.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN  responded that  she was the  injury person  on herring                                                               
and her studies were closed down  in 1993 because the only impact                                                               
being  seen was  on reproduction.   There  were political  issues                                                               
involved as well, she added.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS said  he  would like  to  know what  those                                                               
political issues were.  After  20 years, sample bottles are still                                                               
coming back with oil in them, he reported.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN  answered that  she and Dr.  Vince Patrick  have worked                                                               
hard  trying  to  show  how the  long-term  damage  affected  the                                                               
herring  in Prince  William  Sound.   However,  they got  nowhere                                                               
because the National Marine Fisheries  Service (NMFS) kept saying                                                               
the oil was not there.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:47:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS still questioned  the oil spill disaster in                                                               
Prince William Sound could be compared with Sitka Sound.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR.  BROWN agreed,  but  said  comparison can  be  made to  other                                                               
populations of herring  that declined.  For example,  in the Gulf                                                               
of  Maine  it  took  25  years to  get  recruitment  back.    She                                                               
explained  that the  predator-prey  dynamic is  that the  herring                                                               
must replace themselves at a  greater rate than they are predated                                                               
upon.  In order to have  successful year classes the herring must                                                               
swamp  the predators.    But,  if the  herring  are  down at  low                                                               
levels,  they  cannot break  out  of  that.   This  predator-prey                                                               
dynamic applies  to all species,  not just herring.   Barring the                                                               
oil  spill,  she said  the  only  reason  she brought  up  Prince                                                               
William Sound  is because  those two populations  can be  used as                                                               
measuring sticks against each other  because they are so similar.                                                               
In  further response,  she clarified  that she  is talking  about                                                               
similarities between  the two  prior to the  oil spill.   Because                                                               
the stocks were coherent, scientists  know that there are forcing                                                               
mechanisms, such as  climate, that are similar  for both systems.                                                               
This similarity can therefore be used  to study how the oil spill                                                               
affected the dynamics of Prince William Sound.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:50:16 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR.  BROWN  returned  to  her   presentation  and  reviewed  what                                                               
Southeast Alaska would look like  without herring [slide 4].  She                                                               
said the  impacts of  a collapsed stock  would extend  beyond the                                                               
direct   impacts   on    commercial   and   subsistence   herring                                                               
stakeholders.   These impacts would include  lower average salmon                                                               
sizes,  which  is  already happening,  and  ultimately  decreased                                                               
marine survival,  as well  as reduced size  of halibut  and other                                                               
herring fish predators.  At-risk  marine mammal populations would                                                               
be created.   The  sport charter  industry and  wildlife watching                                                               
tourism  would be  impacted.   Jeopardy  for  marine mammals  and                                                               
subsistence  harvest  could result  in  a  federal take-over  [of                                                               
fisheries] and  research, she warned.   The niches  once occupied                                                               
by  herring would  open up  to non-commercial  species like  sand                                                               
lance  and   juvenile  pollock,   thus  changing   the  community                                                               
structure.   Herring populations  would remain  low for  years to                                                               
come  due to  the "trap"  dynamics.   The state  would have  huge                                                               
expenditures due to environmental  impact studies and response to                                                               
lawsuits.   The bottom  line is  increased economic  hardships on                                                               
local communities and zero income to the state, she said.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:52:30 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN moved  to slide 5 and identified the  key questions and                                                               
data needs  that she thinks should  be looked at:   herring stock                                                               
structure; effects of  scale of fishery and  predation on herring                                                               
distribution  and  spawning  behavior; herring  recruitment;  and                                                               
modeling.   Modeling  is something  that ADF&G  can work  on, she                                                               
said.  However, stock structure  is something that has never been                                                               
done.  "Every  other herring population in the world  has a stock                                                               
model,"  she pointed  out.   "Why doesn't  Alaska?"   Every other                                                               
managed population  of herring has spatial  stock conservation in                                                               
order  to  conserve  the  diversity of  spawning  area,  but  not                                                               
Alaska.    She said  a  main  research  question is  whether  the                                                               
spawning  distribution of  the herring  is being  altered because                                                               
the scale  of fishing  and whale feeding  is now  approaching the                                                               
same scale as the herring population.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:54:01 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN recommended a reduction in  quota for this next year as                                                               
one thing  that could be done  under a short-term action  plan to                                                               
help fix  the problem [slide 6].   There should be  a workshop to                                                               
discuss  the  issues  because  there   have  been  problems  with                                                               
accessing [ADF&G's]  data.  There  needs to be a  bigger research                                                               
budget for ADF&G so the  department can deal with the complexity.                                                               
She offered  her opinion that  ADF&G needs to be  re-organized to                                                               
make things happen.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN  said a  long-term action  plan would  include changing                                                               
ADF&G's  position  from  adversarial to  cooperative,  where  the                                                               
department works  with local  people and groups  [slide 7].   The                                                               
transparency of ADF&G's  data sharing could be  improved and made                                                               
similar to  what is done  in Canada.   The missions of  ADF&G and                                                               
the Board  of Fisheries  should be  returned to  conservation and                                                               
away  from  harvest maximization,  she  said.   There  should  be                                                               
conservation of  local spawning areas  as is done in  every other                                                               
management plan  in the world.   A co-management  structure could                                                               
be established using Canadian models.   "Everybody seems to spend                                                               
all  their money  defending themselves  right now,  and it's  not                                                               
productive," she  said.   Once the  stock is  recovered, research                                                               
quotas from  the fishery can  be used  to pay for  the assessment                                                               
programs so that the research is free to the state government.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:55:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ asked  how many sac roe  and gillnet permits                                                               
for herring are working in the Sitka Sound fishery.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN answered that there are 51 sac roe permits.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:56:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  inquired which entities would  be involved                                                               
in co-management.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DR.  BROWN  replied  that  in  Canada the  fate  of  the  herring                                                               
fisheries is  decided by a  committee comprised  of stakeholders,                                                               
such  as  herring  fishermen,  subsistence  users,  environmental                                                               
groups, and the Department of  Fisheries and Oceans, the Canadian                                                               
equivalent of  ADF&G.  This  arrangement gives  socio-economics a                                                               
voice, she said.   For example, one year the  fish were small and                                                               
the price low,  so the committee decided not to  fish and instead                                                               
banked the fish for the next  year.  This is something that could                                                               
not have been done by ADF&G, she added.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:57:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  commented that assessing [a  research fee]                                                               
on  the sport  charter  fleet, as  suggested on  slide  7 of  Dr.                                                               
Brown's presentation, would be next to impossible.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DR.  BROWN responded  that  to  fish in  Alaska  she  must buy  a                                                               
license.  Where does this money go, she asked.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  countered that  assessing the  sport fleet                                                               
itself will never happen.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:58:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ  asked what the  effect has been  on herring                                                               
biomass in Sitka Sound since measurement began in the 1970s.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN  noted that she has  graphs she can show  later on, but                                                               
the  biomass has  vacillated between  the two  states of  low and                                                               
high.   At  the  moment, the  biomass  is high.    This has  been                                                               
determined  by  the  spawn  deposition  as  well  as  by  flying.                                                               
However, there is an increasing  space between those indices, she                                                               
said.  No  one actually goes out there with  acoustics to measure                                                               
the stock size, so there are real problems with the assessment.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:59:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
VINCENT  PATRICK, Ph.D.  began by  noting that  he has  worked on                                                               
fisheries  issues  since the  1990s,  beginning  with the  Prince                                                               
William  Sound  Science  Center.   He  helped  start  the  Prince                                                               
William  Sound Fisheries  Research Applications  and Planning,  a                                                               
loose coalition  that worked to  bring some of the  research that                                                               
was done  on the spill  to applications  to the fisheries.   Most                                                               
recently he has  been working in Southeast Alaska  with Dr. Brown                                                               
and Mr. Rauwolf.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. PATRICK  directed his  discussion away  from Sitka  Sound and                                                               
back to the larger Southeast Alaska  issue.  Today's issue is not                                                               
new, he said.   It is part of Alaska's  history and success story                                                               
and it was pre-statehood.   Statehood was all about fisheries and                                                               
their recovery.   He recited  the following from  Governor Egan's                                                               
first statement to the First  Alaska State Legislature in January                                                               
1960:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     On January 1 of this  year, Alaska Department of Fish &                                                                    
     Game was handed the depleted  remnants of what was once                                                                    
     a rich and prolific fishery.   On these ruins of a once                                                                    
     great resource, the department must  rebuild.  Our gain                                                                    
     is  that  we can  profit  by  studying the  destructive                                                                    
     practices,  mistakes, and  omissions of  the past.   In                                                                    
     studying  the history  of the  declines  of the  salmon                                                                    
     runs, the actual reasons are  often found to be changes                                                                    
     in the  environment of  the salmon  due to  natural and                                                                    
     unnatural manmade  conditions.   By profiting  from the                                                                    
     mistakes of  the past, by  cooperation of  all parties,                                                                    
     it should be possible to  have new industries and still                                                                    
     maintain our fisheries.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. PATRICK specified that the  key part of rebuilding the salmon                                                               
fisheries was  optimal escapement  management - a  perspective on                                                               
the  early life  cycle of  salmon that  went into  the management                                                               
strategy.     He  said  it   is  legendary  that   [former  ADF&G                                                               
commissioner],  Wally Noerenberg,  personally walked  the streams                                                               
in  Prince  William Sound  to  map  out  the habitat  needed  for                                                               
optimal escapement.   Who is our Egan today and  who is our Wally                                                               
Noerenberg today for herring, asked Dr. Patrick.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. PATRICK  stressed that the  herring resource was  stronger at                                                               
statehood, and even  during the period of  the reduction fishery,                                                               
than it  is today.  The  legacy of statehood for  herring has not                                                               
been  fulfilled like  it was  for salmon,  he continued,  and the                                                               
same type  of reconstruction mindset  is needed today  to restore                                                               
the herring stock.  This is not  about whose quota is going to be                                                               
cut back, he stressed, but  about rebuilding the herring stock to                                                               
what it was historically.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. PATRICK further specified that  despite the many best efforts                                                               
for salmon in the 1960s,  something else was needed in management                                                               
because the  salmon stocks went  down again  in the 1970s.   Thus                                                               
began  salmon hatcheries.   It  took a  special push  to get  the                                                               
hatcheries  off the  ground, and  that was  done by  Governor Jay                                                               
Hammond with  the [Private Non-Profit  Hatchery Act of 1974].   A                                                               
Jay  Hammond is  needed for  herring recovery  today, he  opined.                                                               
The  sustainable side  of  salmon  must now  be  addressed.   The                                                               
salmon is the veneer, and  the under-structure is what the salmon                                                               
feed on.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR.  PATRICK  noted that  in  addition  to salmon  recovery,  the                                                               
[Private Non-Profit  Hatchery Act] brought  historical precedents                                                               
that are relevant to today  - regional associations, private non-                                                               
profit hatcheries,  the Fisheries Rehabilitation  and Enhancement                                                               
Division (FRED)  within the ADF&G,  and regional  planning teams.                                                               
These precedents  are also  applicable to  kicking off  a herring                                                               
recovery, and it  is time to look at this  as a recovery problem.                                                               
The target and the roadmap of  what that recovery would look like                                                               
were provided by  Dr. Thornton, he said.   Contemporary modifiers                                                               
are  needed -  it is  not just  looking back  at history  because                                                               
changes  have occurred,  such as  marine  mammal populations  and                                                               
climate.   The tools  for recovery  are at  hand and  include the                                                               
history  since  statehood,  the   science  and  technology  since                                                               
statehood, a strong Alaska Department  of Fish & Game, grassroots                                                               
organizations, and the sac roe fishermen.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. PATRICK said the reason  for coming before the committee, and                                                               
not the  Alaska Board  of Fisheries or  the Alaska  Department of                                                               
Fish & Game, is because a  new Governor Egan or Hammond is needed                                                               
to bring  herring recovery  forward.   He said  he is  happy that                                                               
legislation is  currently being drafted  that would  help provide                                                               
for herring  recovery.  The issue  at hand is more  than just the                                                               
fishery, he emphasized.  It is  food security.  The issue is also                                                               
the survival  of Alaska's  communities.   A generation  ago these                                                               
fisheries   were  the   underpinning   of   survival  in   Alaska                                                               
communities, but not today.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:10:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MIKE MILLER, Council  Member, Sitka Tribe of Alaska,  said that a                                                               
dire situation is occurring in  Sitka.  This subsistence issue is                                                               
also occurring  across Alaska because the  herring roe, collected                                                               
on branches,  finds its way around  the state.  He  noted that he                                                               
is a subsistence  herring egg harvester with the  Sitka tribe and                                                               
that in three out of  the last four years, subsistence harvesters                                                               
took roughly 60 percent of the  amount recognized by the state as                                                               
minimally  successful.    These  recent  harvests  are  about  20                                                               
percent of the 2004 harvest, he  reported.  A concern exists that                                                               
Sitka may be "the canary  in the coal mine" regarding subsistence                                                               
needs.    If  subsistence  needs  are not  being  met,  then  the                                                               
question of why needs to be answered.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILLER related  that various  perceptions  exist around  the                                                               
state and some  people do not believe there is  a herring problem                                                               
and  do not  understand what  subsistence is.   This  is also  an                                                               
economic concern  for Sitka's tribal households  because the most                                                               
often reported  income is $12,500, he  said.  It is  not a matter                                                               
of getting jobs to augment  or replace subsistence needs by going                                                               
to  the  store to  buy  Wonder  Bread.    There is  the  cultural                                                               
importance  of  subsistence.    The  state's  perception  of  the                                                               
herring issue is different than  the tribe's.  The tribe believes                                                               
it is  definitely a crisis  mode - this is  not just one  year of                                                               
failure, it is three  out of the last four.   Yet, he related, at                                                               
the most  recent regional advisory  council meeting,  the state's                                                               
only  comment  was  that  there   is  no  new  information.    To                                                               
subsistence users,  this is a  scary thing to hear  after another                                                               
complete  failure  of  the  harvest.   Therefore,  the  tribe  is                                                               
concerned about  the state's perception  of what is going  on and                                                               
whether anyone is listening to the tribe's wisdom.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILLER posed  the question,  "Who  should you  listen to  in                                                               
defining if there  is a problem with subsistence?"   He suggested                                                               
listening to the subsistence users  coming before the legislature                                                               
at  great expense  to make  their case.   The  system is  failing                                                               
subsistence users, he  said, and Sitka is just one  example.  The                                                               
Sitka  tribe  has  not  only  had  to  convey  that  there  is  a                                                               
subsistence issue, but it has also  had to prove that the problem                                                               
is  real.   It  has  had to  conduct  herring  research and  find                                                               
solutions on  its own.   The tribe has  been asked to  prove that                                                               
any  solutions  it  offers  will absolutely  work  and  will  not                                                               
negatively  impact commercial  fisheries.   The  Sitka Tribe  has                                                               
spent  in excess  of  $1  million on  herring  issues to  protect                                                               
herring subsistence,  of which  $75,000 was  spent to  help ADF&G                                                               
conduct  surveys.   The  tribe is  asking  for the  legislature's                                                               
assistance in fixing  this serious issue.  Progress  has not been                                                               
made and the burden to prove the need remains unheard.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:17:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER addressed what  happens when subsistence opportunities                                                               
are prevented.   Food  is an  essential part  of both  Native and                                                               
non-Native  culture in  the rural  communities,  he pointed  out.                                                               
The  whole  social  structure  is  compromised  when  subsistence                                                               
harvest  is reduced.   Daily  life, physical  health, and  mental                                                               
health  of the  people  are negatively  affected, and  addressing                                                               
these subsequent problems results in expense to the state.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER said  a solution has not been discovered,  and that is                                                               
why the tribe is asking  the legislature to delegate authority to                                                               
the Alaska  Department of Fish  & Game  for the tribe  to provide                                                               
some direction  on how to  progress.   At present, the  system is                                                               
failing.   The department is  failing to protect the  herring egg                                                               
harvest  in  Sitka, which  means  the  legislative body  is  also                                                               
failing to protect  subsistence opportunity.  He  allowed that he                                                               
and  other subsistence  representatives  are failing  as well  to                                                               
protect subsistence opportunities.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER,  in response to  Representative Buch,  explained that                                                               
the primary method  for subsistence herring egg  harvest in Sitka                                                               
is thousands of years old and  occurs in the exact same places in                                                               
Sitka Sound.   Small  hemlock trees are  felled and  the branches                                                               
are anchored  by rocks  in the intertidal  areas where  they then                                                               
receive  the  herring  spawn.     In  response  to  several  more                                                               
questions, Mr.  Miller said people used  to walk out at  low tide                                                               
to put out the  branches, but now boats must be  used and this is                                                               
limited to  mostly small  skiffs that can  be brought  ashore for                                                               
collecting  the branches.   He  said he  thinks that  during last                                                               
year's harvest in  March 2008, the price for boat  fuel was about                                                               
$4 per gallon  for gas and in  the mid-$3 range for  diesel.  The                                                               
harvest occurs  in a very short  window around the end  of March,                                                               
he added.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:23:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  inquired whether  a complete shut  down as                                                               
recommended  by some  scientists  would  include the  subsistence                                                               
harvest.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER answered  that the tribe would not  support closure of                                                               
the  subsistence fishery.   The  amount of  eggs gathered  on the                                                               
branches  is very  minimal in  the equivalent  amount of  tons of                                                               
fish.  Even  in the highest years the equivalent  of fish is less                                                               
than 500 tons,  he said.  So, the tribe  believes the subsistence                                                               
harvest has minimal impact.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:24:14 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS  understood   that  theft  of  subsistence                                                               
branches is now a problem.   He commented that in the three years                                                               
he  has  been  on  the  House Finance  Committee's  Fish  &  Game                                                               
Subcommittee, no funding has been  requested for herring research                                                               
in Southeast Alaska.  He  said the subcommittee has never opposed                                                               
enhancement  projects and  development.   He  urged that  funding                                                               
requests be submitted  through ADF&G so the  legislature can work                                                               
with the tribe and others.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILLER agreed  that  theft  of branches  does  occur and  is                                                               
getting worse  as people  have more  and more  difficulty meeting                                                               
their basic  needs.  He noted  that funding is an  issue and that                                                               
the tribe will be coming to  the subcommittee in this regard.  It                                                               
is one  of the  reasons for  being here  as well,  he added.   He                                                               
explained  that   the  tribe  has   tried  to  work   with  ADF&G                                                               
extensively  since 2002  and has  a  Memorandum of  Understanding                                                               
(MOU)  with the  department.    The tribe  has  been telling  the                                                               
department  that there  is  a problem.   He  said  he begged  the                                                               
department in  2006 to provide  some solution that he  could take                                                               
back to the community, but no  relief was received from the Board                                                               
of Fisheries.   Therefore, the reason for being here  today is to                                                               
promote working together on this.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:27:23 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  acknowledged that continuity is  lost when                                                               
administrations  and division  directors  change.   He urged  the                                                               
tribe to come  to the legislature with a funding  proposal and to                                                               
follow  up  with  the  director of  the  Division  of  Commercial                                                               
Fisheries.  He also urged the  tribe to meet with the director of                                                               
the  Division of  Subsistence because  that budget  will soon  be                                                               
coming before the subcommittee.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER responded that no  progress toward a solution has been                                                               
made by  the bickering  back and  forth that  has occurred.   The                                                               
tribe is  encouraging change in  how these issues  are addressed.                                                               
The tribe was  told by the Department  of Law that the  MOU was a                                                               
good document, but that it lacked  the teeth necessary to make it                                                               
work.  He said he presumes  this would be the same situation with                                                               
the Division  of Subsistence  and that he  hopes the  Division of                                                               
Subsistence can get dedicated funding  and the ability to enforce                                                               
subsistence priority.   He urged the legislature  to help promote                                                               
this.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:30:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CLARENCE JACKSON,  Director, Sealaska Corporation, noted  that he                                                               
has been  a herring egg collector  since the 1960s.   He recalled                                                               
his  childhood summers  fishing on  board his  grandparents' boat                                                               
beginning in  1938 when the  herring stocks stretched  from shore                                                               
to shore in Chatham Strait, from  the northern tip of Kuiu Island                                                               
all the  way to  Baranof Island.   It seemed  like the  water was                                                               
boiling with herring and the herring  boats cleaned up as fast as                                                               
they could.   Of course, the herring disappeared  during his time                                                               
as a youth, he said.  During  the 1960s he opposed a bait fishery                                                               
that was  proposed for the  Kake area because that  herring spawn                                                               
took care  of the people  in Kake.  But  an opening was  held one                                                               
winter and  since about 1965  there has not been  another herring                                                               
spawn.   He  said he  began  transplanting herring  eggs when  he                                                               
started  hauling eggs  to give  away,  and now  there are  little                                                               
spawns.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JACKSON explained  that he  sends boxes  of herring  eggs, a                                                               
prized food of his people, all over  the country.  He does not do                                                               
this for  pay, but  to help  the people who  have lived  off this                                                               
food.  He said he used to send  anywhere from 100 to 160 boxes of                                                               
eggs, but  because the herring  stock has gone  so low he  had to                                                               
reduce  the number  of boxes  to  40 two  years ago,  as well  as                                                               
reduce the  weight of each  box from 55 pounds  to 30 pounds   He                                                               
said even this  amount is a struggle  to come by and  it seems to                                                               
him  that the  stock is  having a  problem.   Instead of  herring                                                               
boiling  the water  as far  as the  eye can  see, he  now has  to                                                               
travel a long way to find a  patch of herring.  Before the people                                                               
of Kake had power boats, they  would move to Port Houghton to put                                                               
up  herring eggs,  he related.    Further, his  great-grandfather                                                               
used to  say that  food is money  and when there  is food  put up                                                               
there is no problem.  This is still true today, he stressed.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JACKSON  maintained that  the solution is  not to  study this                                                               
situation to  death.  The  solution is  to start taking  steps to                                                               
preserve  the  stock,  to  protect the  herring  that  is  there.                                                               
Despite his 35  years of transplanting 500 pounds  of herring roe                                                               
annually, there is still not millions  of herring in Kake.  While                                                               
herring are coming back to Kake,  the numbers are so small that a                                                               
spawn is hardly  ever seen.  This is of  concern because the Kake                                                               
people  are not  going  to give  up something  that  is in  their                                                               
culture,  he  said.   While  he  is  not necessarily  opposed  to                                                               
studies,  Mr. Jackson  said he  is worried  that studies  will be                                                               
used  to keep  extending the  status quo.   The  herring need  to                                                               
"boil" in the water again, he declared.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:42:09 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHIP  TREINEN, Representative,  Sitka Herring  Association, first                                                               
noted that  he is  a sac  roe seine  permit holder,  so he  has a                                                               
vested interest in this fishery.   He reported that there are now                                                               
50  sac  roe permit  holders  because  one  was eliminated.    He                                                               
explained that the  permits are for all of  Southeast Alaska, not                                                               
just Sitka Sound, but the fishing  has occurred in Sitka Sound in                                                               
recent  years  because  the other  stocks  have  been  depressed.                                                               
Previous sac  roe fisheries took  place in Lynn and  Behm canals,                                                               
but  these stocks  have not  been fished  for many  years because                                                               
they  have  not  been  above  the threshold  limit.    Thus,  the                                                               
commercial fishermen  cannot be blamed  for any problem  with the                                                               
stocks  not  coming  back,  he   opined.    Even  so,  commercial                                                               
fishermen are often  the scapegoat for there being  no herring in                                                               
a  given area.   Two-thirds  of  the permit  holders are  Alaskan                                                               
residents,  and  a  little  less   than  half  of  them  live  in                                                               
Southeast, he related.  There  are also some small bait fisheries                                                               
that occur on various stocks around  the state.  Those are stocks                                                               
that can  handle the  harvest without jeopardy  to the  health of                                                               
the stock.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TREINEN pointed  out that  the  Sitka fishery  began in  the                                                               
1970s  in response  to the  development of  the Japanese  market.                                                               
The herring  are caught  in the  spring for  their roe,  he said.                                                               
Prior   fisheries   were   for  reduction   and   industrial-type                                                               
activities, and  the amount of  herring taken in  those fisheries                                                               
was an order  of magnitude greater.  However, at  this point, the                                                               
guideline harvest  level in Sitka  will be about 15,000  tons, as                                                               
compared  to  the historical  harvests  of  100,000 tons.    This                                                               
15,000 tons is based on  ADF&G assessments that indicate there is                                                               
a large biomass available.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TREINEN  said  the  first-wholesale   value  of  the  Alaska                                                               
fishery,  based on  a  box-frozen price,  is  about $23  million.                                                               
About one-third of that is  the ex-vessel price to the fishermen,                                                               
which is split between the  vessel owners, crews, permit holders,                                                               
pilots, and  others assisting in  the fishery.  The  remainder of                                                               
that value  goes to  processors, taxes,  transportation, storage,                                                               
and fuel,  and these are the  things that drive the  economic mix                                                               
of those Alaskan communities.   If the fishery is eliminated, the                                                               
income  will be  lost.   He said  he thinks  that to  justify the                                                               
ADF&G  expenditure there  needs to  be some  commercial activity,                                                               
otherwise  it becomes  difficult to  get funding  to study  those                                                               
fish.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TREINEN   noted  that  commercial  herring   fishermen  have                                                               
specialized equipment  - sonar,  sounders, aerial support  - that                                                               
help  to  assess  the  stocks.    The  fishermen  therefore  have                                                               
information  that  others would  not  normally  be able  to  get.                                                               
Herring are notoriously difficult to  predict and may move to new                                                               
spawning grounds,  he said, but  this does  not mean there  is no                                                               
longer any herring.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:49:03 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. TREINEN  said it is  unclear as to  why the Lynn  Canal stock                                                               
has not recovered;  however, whale populations in  that area have                                                               
increased  substantially.    He related  that  herring  fishermen                                                               
engaged in  other Lynn Canal fisheries  have reported substantial                                                               
herring  biomasses.    He  offered his  opinion  that  there  are                                                               
herring  around,  but the  assessment  program  is inadequate  to                                                               
observe  all  of  the  herring  stocks.   The  Sitka  stocks  are                                                               
prospering  under  ADF&G  management,  he  maintained.    A  high                                                               
guideline  harvest  level  is  anticipated  for  the  March  2009                                                               
season.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:51:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  EDGMON surmised  that  Mr. Treinen  is  speaking from  the                                                               
perspective  of the  Sitka  sac roe  fishery  while the  previous                                                               
testimony has been about all of Southeast Alaska.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TREINEN  replied  that  he was  discussing  the  Lynn  Canal                                                               
stocks.  He  added that the fleet respects  the subsistence users                                                               
and has worked  hard to assist them.  The  fleet often hears that                                                               
subsistence users want  something done, but it  cannot figure out                                                               
what  the  subsistence  users  want  outside  of  destroying  the                                                               
fleet's  opportunities to  harvest  the herring  stocks that  are                                                               
available according to ADF&G.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:52:09 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KYLE HEBERT, Biologist, Division  of Commercial Fisheries, Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish  & Game (ADF&G), condensed  a 16-page overview                                                               
of  the commercial  herring program  overseen by  the department.                                                               
He  began  with a  map  showing  the  primary herring  stocks  in                                                               
Southeast Alaska  [slide 3].   The red triangles depict  the main                                                               
stocks  actively  monitored  by  the  department  each  year  and                                                               
generally  indicate areas  of commercial  harvest, he  explained.                                                               
Enough  information  is  collected  in these  areas  to  estimate                                                               
population  abundance.   The black  circles  indicate areas  that                                                               
have had  smaller-scale fisheries  or small  amounts of  spawn in                                                               
the past,  and the department  does not collect  much information                                                               
on those.  He pointed out  that Annette Island is depicted on the                                                               
map because it  is a significant spawning  area; however, Annette                                                               
Island is  not within  the state's  management authority  and the                                                               
department receives minimal information on that stock.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEBERT  displayed a  graph of the  herring harvests  over the                                                               
past  century [slide  4].   In the  early years  of the  fishery,                                                               
which was mainly  a reduction fishery, the  management was fairly                                                               
passive and  the harvests  were high.   Over  the past  couple of                                                               
decades [1980-2007],  management has  become more active  and the                                                               
Board of Fisheries has established  a management plan and has set                                                               
target  harvest  levels which  are  believed  to be  sustainable.                                                               
During  this period  of time  the harvest  levels have  increased                                                               
because the population size has increased.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:55:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEBERT  reviewed the  Southeast  Alaska  herring harvest  by                                                               
fishery  from  1980-2007  [slide  5].    Several  fisheries  have                                                               
developed over the  past couple of decades, he  explained.  These                                                               
include a herring sac roe fishery  with both purse seine and gill                                                               
net gear  types, a bait fishery  primarily by purse seine,  and a                                                               
spawn-on-kelp fishery.  The Sitka  Sound sac roe fishery has been                                                               
the dominant fishery; however, in  recent years the spawn-on-kelp                                                               
fishery has become  a significant herring fishery.   He displayed                                                               
a graph  depicting the ex-vessel  values of the  entire Southeast                                                               
Alaska herring  fishery from 1978-2008,  and noted that  the 2008                                                               
value was a record high of nearly $18 million [slide 6].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:56:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEBERT discussed  the herring management plan  adopted by the                                                               
Board  of  Fisheries for  Southeast  Alaska,  which has  been  in                                                               
regulation since  1994 [slide 7].   He  reviewed four of  the six                                                               
actions that the  department is required to take  under the plan:                                                               
1)  identify   and  manage  herring  stocks   based  on  spawning                                                               
locations,  2)  establish  minimum  spawning  biomass  thresholds                                                               
below which  fishing will  not occur, 3)  assess the  biomass for                                                               
each stock  prior to commercial  fisheries, and 4) set  a harvest                                                               
rate that  is between 10 percent  and 20 percent when  the stocks                                                               
are above the threshold.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEBERT  explained that the  thresholds are a main  element of                                                               
the management  plan [slide  8].  No  commercial harvest  will be                                                               
allowed in an area where the  forecast is below the threshold, he                                                               
said.  Thresholds  have two primary goals:   1) maintain adequate                                                               
spawning   populations  that   are   buffered  against   possible                                                               
recruitment failure, and 2)  maintain adequate herring population                                                               
levels for the many predator species.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:59:00 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  EDGMON summarized  the information  provided by  the day's                                                               
speakers:    Mr. Rauwolf  said  the  state's harvest  formula  is                                                               
outdated,  especially given  the  dramatic  increase in  humpback                                                               
whales;  Dr.  Thornton  pointed  out  that  ADF&G  does  not  use                                                               
historical and  traditional knowledge in its  considerations; Dr.                                                               
Brown  noted that  predator-prey  dynamics  are overwhelming  the                                                               
fishery,  there  is  a  lack  of  transparency  from  ADF&G,  the                                                               
department needs  a bigger budget and  re-organization, and there                                                               
needs to be  a return to conservation and away  from harvest; Dr.                                                               
Patrick said  a Jay Hammond is  needed to bring the  herring back                                                               
like what was done with salmon;  Mr. Miller stressed that this is                                                               
the canary  in the  coal mine, the  subsistence fisheries  were a                                                               
failure these last 4 years, there  is no new information from the                                                               
state,  and the  MOU with  the state  has no  teeth; Mr.  Jackson                                                               
explained why studies worry him;  and Mr. Treinen maintained that                                                               
there is  no overfishing of  this very valuable fishery  and that                                                               
the commercial fishermen do not want  to be the scapegoat.  Chair                                                               
Edgmon asked that ADF&G respond to this testimony.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
12:00:31 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  HILSINGER,  Director,  Division  of  Commercial  Fisheries,                                                               
replied that  the department does take  this extremely seriously.                                                               
It spends all  the resources it can muster to  monitor and manage                                                               
the herring  fisheries, he  said.  There  is an  extensive public                                                               
process through  the Board  of Fisheries  and there  are numerous                                                               
advisory  committees  in Southeast  Alaska.    The management  is                                                               
pretty conservative with harvest rates  between 10 and 20 percent                                                               
depending on the  stock status.  In addition,  the thresholds are                                                               
set  fairly conservatively.    For example,  in  the Sitka  Sound                                                               
fishery, the actual  calculation of the threshold  would be about                                                               
16,000  tons,  but to  be  conservative  the Board  of  Fisheries                                                               
increased that to  20,000 tons.  He acknowledged  that changes in                                                               
the environment have  been noted, but it is  unknown whether this                                                               
is  part  of overall  global  climate  change or  more  localized                                                               
changes.    The  department  has noticed  that  the  herring  are                                                               
spawning in different areas than  they have historically and this                                                               
has been clearly seen in the  Sitka Sound fishery.  Management is                                                               
being adapted  to meet the changes,  he said.  The  department is                                                               
cognizant of  the subsistence fishery  and the state  priority to                                                               
provide reasonable subsistence opportunity.   Further, ADF&G does                                                               
seriously  consider the  need to  communicate with  all the  user                                                               
groups, both commercial and subsistence.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:03:30 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  commented that  he is looking  forward to                                                               
Dr. Thornton's  report because he  finds the concept  of managing                                                               
fish and game based on  archeology, anthropology, and second-hand                                                               
stories an  interesting approach.   He said  he does not  see how                                                               
this type  of science will  translate into how to  manage today's                                                               
problems at the Board of Fisheries meeting next month.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:04:14 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ requested  that  the  Alaska Department  of                                                               
Fish  & Game  address the  comment  that was  made regarding  the                                                               
herring  decline in  Prince William  Sound being  a harbinger  of                                                               
what could happen in Sitka Sound.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. HILSINGER said the department will do that.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:05:00 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Special Committee on Fisheries meeting was adjourned at 12:05                                                                   
p.m.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
BoardProposalsWithSignatures.PDF HFSH 2/10/2009 10:00:00 AM
Dr.EvelynBrownPresentation.PDF HFSH 2/10/2009 10:00:00 AM
SE AK Herring Fisheries--ADF&G Report to Leg.pdf HFSH 2/10/2009 10:00:00 AM
KtchHerringActionCommitteeRauwofTestimony.pdf HFSH 2/10/2009 10:00:00 AM
LettersAndStatements--1993-2008-2009.PDF HFSH 2/10/2009 10:00:00 AM
Dr.ThorntonTestimony.pdf HFSH 2/10/2009 10:00:00 AM